Mariatta Wijaya - Python Documentation, PyLadies, Keeping Fish, Public Speaking
Well, thanks, Mariatta, for showing up and talking with me. Pretty excited to have you here.
Mariatta:Thanks for having me, Brian.
Brian:My first PyCon was the 2nd PyCon. I think it was 2017 or yeah. It was the second one in Portland, and I think you gave a talk, about there about, your entrance into being a core contributor and stuff like that. It was really very inspiring. But since then, maybe before, but you've given a lot of different talks and been involved with PyCon.
Brian:It's it's pretty cool. And are you you're you're still working or you not working really, but you still contribute as a core contributor as well. Right?
Mariatta:I'm still well, I still have my commit, right, as Python core developer. I'm still involved. Right now, I'm involved in the documentation community group. It's a new, work group that we created where we focus on improving documentation, like the CPython documentation itself. We have several team members, and some of our focus is we've started talking about data access documentation.
Mariatta:We've improved some of the toolings. I know people have been improving the toolings, the documentation theme. We're thinking about having some kind of editorial team to to really improve the content of Python documentation. And, also, I've I've also been helping like, I've maintained the the GitHub bots that we have. I I wrote a few of them.
Mariatta:We have we have these GitHub bots since before there were GitHub actions, and and so we have legacy infrastructure. But they still work. So I I help with the work flow, the core workflow. That's what we call it.
Brian:So GitHub, I guess I've never written a GitHub bot. What is No. How does a GitHub bot fit within, like, a GitHub actions environment? Or
Mariatta:So with GitHub bots, basically, it works through GitHub webhooks. So we we need to spin up our own web server. Right now, they're on Heroku, basically. So we have a web web web service that receive webhooks from GitHub. And then based on these different webhooks, we we run we call GitHub APIs.
Mariatta:And the framework for this is the git aiohttp webservice. So it's asyncio, async web server. And, also, we use git GitHub library, which is, an async IO library that Brad Cannon initially wrote for working with GitHub APIs. So
Brian:Okay.
Mariatta:Yeah. And I've I've used so when I was learning how to build GitHub bots, like, there was I didn't know how it works. And, actually, I I talked a little bit about this in my talk. There's an API for that. Like, I didn't know how it works, when I joined the when joined the Python theme, at that time, we just started moving from the bugs dot Python bugspython.org into GitHub.
Mariatta:So we are still in like, there are still lots of workflow improvement to be done. One of them is one of the things that Brad wanted to do is build more automation on GitHub, build build some bots. So I became interested. I learned how to do it by using by seeing what bot bots we have there, and I realized, well, there was no tutorials on how to do this yet in Python using GitHub, so I decided I'm gonna write the tutorial about it. So I ended up writing and giving tutorial about GitHub bots at picon US.
Mariatta:So that was cool. And because I've I've used this library a lot, I contribute to GitHub, and, eventually, Brett just say, okay. Yeah. I'll add you as the main as a co maintainer here to the project. So that that's how I became a co maintainer
Brian:of an open source project.
Mariatta:Oh, that's
Brian:pretty cool. Yeah. Neat. And, you you're in Vancouver. Right?
Mariatta:Mhmm.
Brian:And, oh, Brett Brett's in Vancouver too.
Mariatta:Yeah.
Brian:Nice. And then, also, you're involved with, PyLadies both in Vancouver and, in the kinda global PyLadies. Is that right?
Mariatta:Yeah. I so I think a few years ago it's been a while back. Like, I I just moved to Vancouver, and I didn't know a lot of people. I didn't I wasn't involved in the community, and then I heard about Byeladies Vancouver. So I joined, and they were looking for new organizer.
Mariatta:So I thought I'm gonna sign up, and it's been I've been involved ever since. And I've also been involved with the Global Pyeladies as as an administrator. If if people know the story of pilot is it, like, it was started by, 9 people in LA area. Audrey Roy Greenfield was 1. Esther Lam was another.
Mariatta:There there are so many other people. But for for a while, even though there are many piloties chapters all over the world, the main people who has, like, commit rights to GitHub or the ones who have access to the My Lady's inbox was only 2, 3 people. So back in 2019, we we met, like, we met at PyCon US, like, different pilot leaders from all over the world. Like, we ask how we can help. So I I also signed up to offer my help, and this was one of the responsibilities I ended up taking on.
Mariatta:Or or maybe I should also say what Paylady's is about. It's a global mentorship group for women and those who are underrepresented in the community. And our goal is not only to have more women using Python, but also for women to participate and take active leadership in the Python communities, not just as a user, but also as as a speaker or as maintainer, as creators and leaders. So that is the mission of PyLadies.
Brian:Oh, that's wonderful. That's great. I I I think I have an Audrey or somebody else, one of the other, starting people up on to talk about some of the the roots at the beginning might be a cool thing.
Mariatta:Mhmm.
Brian:And I love so there's always there's I can't remember. So isn't the PyLadies, is that what the the auction's about usually at PyCon?
Mariatta:Yes. The the
Brian:Is that something else?
Mariatta:That is pilot is auction@piconus, and I don't rank those. You might wanna talk to Lynn, for sure. Lynn, Jackie, Gazelle. Lynn Rood and Jackie Gazelle.
Brian:Okay.
Mariatta:So I think they can give more information. So, basically, it is to raise fund for the piloties Okay. For piloties group.
Brian:And then, you, you mentioned also, not online yet, but, Pyeladiescon. Is there a is there a convention just for Pyeladies? Or is it
Mariatta:Yeah. This is a brand new it's it's a conference for PyLadies, and we will have it in December of this year. So what is that? 4 more months from now? December 2nd Okay.
Mariatta:What December 1 to 3, in the weekend, and we're gonna host it, on different time zones for it's really the goal is to be inclusive for everybody all over the world.
Brian:Okay. So it's a a virtual conference then?
Mariatta:It's a virtual conference, and it will be free to attend with the option to donate.
Brian:Oh, cool.
Mariatta:We're we're trying to get sponsorships. Naomi Sider is one of the organizers, and she's also she's involved in the sponsorship aspect of it. We're we're still setting up the website, but we we now have the call for proposals going on. We are looking for lots of talks, and we really wanna show our we really wanna highlight that we have members all over the world who speaks different languages. So we want to have talks not only in English, but also in different languages.
Mariatta:I can't pronounce the the different languages names, like French
Brian:Okay.
Mariatta:Spanish, Portuguese, and, Chinese.
Brian:I actually just, so I just, we haven't aired it yet, but I just talked with Naomi this week. Mhmm. And, she's she speaks so many, like well, I guess not there are people that speak, like, gobs of languages, but I speak one.
Mariatta:Yeah.
Brian:And so Naomi speaks port Portuguese and Spanish and, even Greek, a little Greek. That's pretty cool. Oh. But she's a very cool person also. I I wanted to get to know you a little better.
Brian:One of the fun things that you do is, that you've done and I even saw that you had some stickers around this at at, Pike Cascades, is the typo of the day. Mhmm. So could you tell me more about how what how this started and how it got so big?
Mariatta:I don't know how it got so big. Like, I, actually, actually, I tried to look at my my Twitter posts, but ever since the beginning, I have typos. I think one of the earliest that I shared, it didn't have the typo of the day hashtag. I just typed my most embarrassing typo. Like, I typed bum in the oven.
Mariatta:I I was texting my husband who works from home. I check I asked him, like, can you put the buns in the oven so it will be ready when I come home? But instead of buns, it says bums in the oven.
Brian:A BOM, massive.
Mariatta:Yeah. BOM. So
Brian:That's funny.
Mariatta:That that's one of the first one that I shared, but at that I guess at that time, I was quite unknown. It didn't go viral or anything, but I continued sharing my typos. Like, one day, it was I wanna type ice cream on my phone. It came out ice dream. I thought, that's that's funny.
Mariatta:But that's that could be a real world too. Right?
Brian:Yeah.
Mariatta:But it's it's that's going from there. I don't even know. Like, somehow somehow I made typos real typos. They re they are I something I type out, and then when they come out, I thought this could be a word. And then I I continued sharing.
Mariatta:I started using type of the day heading, as a way to, like, you know, this is a highlight of my day. It's stupid, but, also, it's funny. Somehow, yeah, somehow when people saw maybe I did it a little bit a lot that people started to realize when they made typos, they share it with me. They say, hey, Marietta. Here's my typo of the day.
Mariatta:So I didn't think I created anything, but I was really happy that people associated typos with me. So I thought, alright. Maybe this is my thing now. Let's do typo of the day as a as a as a meme.
Brian:Oh, that's that's cool. But then but then, also, what what made you think to be kind of fun to draw pictures around them and and make stickers.
Mariatta:I've been so first of all, I didn't draw them. Like so I commissioned people on Fiverr. I don't know how to pronounce it. I I, I don't know how to draw. So I but I have a a vision.
Mariatta:Like, I want I've been thinking about this. Like, I wanna have some kind of stickers or something to I don't know. Just just to represent that this typos, something I can market somehow. So I I I commissioned people for it, but I thought it's it's a good way to share this for to people, something to look at, something to give you chuckles.
Brian:Yeah. Well and I think I have a a different laptop cover than I had at at, I think, so that I'm gonna next time I meet up with you, hopefully, you'll have a couple stickers I can grab from you because I think they're cute.
Mariatta:Yes. Right? It's I yes. I do have lots of stickers. And if you happen anyone happen to meet me, I might not be like, maybe I didn't advertise it well, but I will have type of the base decals with me.
Mariatta:If you like it, just ask.
Brian:Okay. You also you said you keep a freshwater aquarium at home?
Mariatta:Yeah. So the the the aquarium, the fish is the only kind of pet that I can keep that fits my lifestyle. I can't I can't have cats because I'm I'm allergic. But, also, like, my husband and I, we travel a lot, so we can't leave pets at home. But with an aquarium, I can have it automated.
Mariatta:So, like, I just went on a trip, like, away for we went like, nobody was at home for 3 weeks. And the fish are still alive. I think we lost 1 or 2. But, overall, it's still functioning. It's still alive, and they're they're actually for me, I find it fun and soothing just looking at them.
Mariatta:I think the researcher, they they realized that looking at nature, including, like, fish, aquarium with the plants Yeah. Animals moving around. It it brings you, like, some kind of calm. It gives you this kind of, effect to to give calming effect. And that's why in dentist offices, you will see they some of them, they have aquarium.
Mariatta:I've been to dentist office that don't have aquarium, but they have a big TV, and it just plays videos of the ocean. Oh, okay. Yes. With fish. Right?
Mariatta:You saw them. You know them.
Brian:Yeah. Yeah.
Mariatta:Yeah. That's the reason to make you calm before this that that was the jelly.
Brian:Okay. But you you say, you so do you automate the feeding also then?
Mariatta:Well, I didn't well, I not that I I automate. I didn't write any code, but there are automated feeders you can buy. I buy them from Amazon. Like, you put the the you you put the fish food in, and then you can schedule it to to drop food twice.
Brian:Even, like, even, like, a few weeks? That's pretty cool.
Mariatta:Yes. It lasts a few week. It's it's a big capacity. Yeah. It lasts long, and the battery lasts for a few months.
Mariatta:No. I don't need to recharge it for for a few months.
Brian:And you set up a, like, a camera or something so that you can watch them even when you're not there? Or is that still active, or was that just an experiment?
Mariatta:That was an experiment. I need to fix the code. I found a bug. Like, my API token expired, and I didn't have a way to refresh my API token. So it it lasts for 10 days.
Mariatta:I guess that's when the token expire. But I I do plan to set it up next time I'm traveling. So, like, I I wanted to, yeah, to check up on them while I'm away.
Brian:Uh-huh.
Mariatta:I set up a a webcam, just a regular webcam. The same webcam I'm using for my meetings on computer, connected it to a Raspberry Pi, which I just got. And I I wrote Python code, to capture to capture pictures. So I put it in front of the aquarium.
Brian:That's pretty cool. I was just thinking about, like, a lot of the people that make that do I don't know. I so I I've written a ton, especially for work and and and home stuff. I've written a ton of automated little scripts and stuff and and, other other bits of code outside of the the the large projects that I've worked on. But the, it's just something else.
Brian:It's one of those things is that I forget about afterwards. The intel afterwards is is now I have something else to maintain. Yet another piece of software that needs main maintenance.
Mariatta:Yeah. Yeah.
Brian:The you, in so, the the whole peaceful thing, I get that except for I've got so I don't have fish, but we do have, cats and 3 birds. And either one of them may be peaceful on their own, but having them together, the peacefulness is out the window. They they squawk at each other and stuff like that. But, but I have there's no animals out well, out outside, we've got a garden and a pond with a little waterfall thing, and that's very peaceful. I like to go.
Mariatta:Oh, yeah. The waterfall is good. Yep. And the pond.
Brian:And I
Mariatta:totally can can see how birds and cats. Well I can imagine the cows.
Brian:It's not as bad as that. I thought it was gonna be terrible. We actually kinda rescued these birds from from some friends that couldn't, couldn't keep them. But we had them in the I would roll them in the office at night because then then and separate the cats and the birds. And after about a year of that, it just got old.
Brian:And so we gradually tried to have them together more and watch them. And everybody's good except for them. We got a new cat. And he's he's not he doesn't try to attack them, but he likes to sit on top of their cage. And when he jumps up there, it it rocks back and forth.
Brian:And all the bird lovers out there are probably gonna, like, send me hate mail and say, this is awful that you let your cat sit up there. But the the the sitting up there isn't the problem. It's the jumping up, and he rattles the cage. So Yeah. Yeah.
Mariatta:I can imagine the birds are gonna be, like, so stressful.
Brian:No. They're okay. We we put a little cover. They they don't really see them up there too much.
Mariatta:Oh, okay.
Brian:Anyway, I one of the I love you mentioned that you are a a foodie, and I am definitely think of myself as a foodie also, except for my my love for food does not extend. I guess it exceeds my budget. I guess, well, that's what I'd like to say. I would love it if I could eat at a fine restaurant every night, except for the drive to Portland every like, I'm only 20 minutes out, but still, I don't wanna drive in there every night. But, but I'd so I do like to cook and everything.
Brian:So do, do you like to cook also? Or
Mariatta:I just I don't know. I somehow have this obsession with food. I just I love them. I eat them. I cook, but I what I enjoy about cooking is not cooking every day.
Mariatta:It's boring. What what I like is, like, I saw something on TV or something, like, maybe I watch a TV show that features a food. Okay. If I watch Korean drama and they start eating Korean food, then I would like, I wanna go to Korean restaurant. That's the kind of people I am.
Mariatta:But I enjoy looking something, and I thought, oh, I wanna try to replicate it. I'm gonna cook this. So I'm gonna research lots of different recipes, compare them, and and then try to cook it myself. So that's the kind of cooking I enjoy doing, like, trying something new, like, trying recipes. I also really like baking, although it's not I like doing it, but I can't do it often.
Mariatta:There's too much sweets. It's it's not good for health. I got nobody eating the food.
Brian:What what kind of baking? Like, pies or cakes? Or Yeah.
Mariatta:I I these days, I make muffins. At least that's what my my kids like. Cakes, I enjoy making as well.
Brian:How have you have you
Mariatta:I made bread.
Brian:Oh, really?
Mariatta:But yeah. I That's cool. Anymore now, but I used to
Brian:I know it's so, like Mhmm. I've I've apparently, I waited until after, like, the COVID cliche of, everybody making bread, during COVID. I I've got a neighbor that makes sourdough, so I don't need to do that, but I might try. Okay. But, anyway, the thing that I'm trying to do is, and I I don't know why it took me so long because it's not that it's well, it's not that time consuming.
Brian:I I'm trying to make pizza dough, so that we can cook our own pizza at home. And the first the the fur I've only done it a couple times so far, and I think I need to find a new recipe because they're too thick. And I want the thinner crust, so I'm still working on it. But but I do make a lot of scones. I like scones.
Mariatta:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those are good. Those are good.
Brian:You say you know the for example, I'll, the history of tempura.
Mariatta:Yeah. It's interesting. Right? That's the kind of thing I like. Like, I'm researching about food.
Brian:Well, I love it just like what? So tempura, if I get this right, it's this stuff that where it's like, something breaded like a vegetable or anything breaded and then fried. Right?
Mariatta:Is that Right. Kind of
Brian:what it is?
Mariatta:Like, it's like fritters. It's coated. It's a Japanese dish. You will find this in you go to Japanese restaurants, they will have shrimp tempura or vegetable tempura. So deep fry something.
Mariatta:So the interesting is this this is not purely Japanese. It came from Portuguese missionaries when they visited Japan in the 16th century. Like, the Portuguese has a kind of dish called a fritter, deep fried something. So before before that in Japan, I guess, they did fry things, but without any coating. They just fry it.
Mariatta:And this got introduced by the Portuguese, and, actually, the name temp tempura comes from, I guess, it's from it's a Spanish or Latin or Portuguese word. I think it's even the same, like, tempura, which means amber days, which is like a Christianity thing. Something they eat during this
Brian:Okay.
Mariatta:Amber days period. That's the that's where the name come from. So I find that interesting. It it's like they they take influences from other cop other countries and then make it their own becomes their own specialty. And one interesting thing that I read about it is that back then, Japanese people they were not allowed to do deep frying at home.
Mariatta:They're not allowed to serve deep fried food at home because it's fire hazard. And at that time, their house are made of paper. So
Brian:Yeah.
Mariatta:They they can't do this at home. That's why it becomes a popular thing to do at as street food in food carts. That's that's how it becomes popular because that house are made of paper. So that I found it super interesting.
Brian:Yeah. So That kinda reminds me of all, like, every everything well, in the US, at least every Thanksgiving, you hear about tons of fires happen because, because there's there's this this I this thing in of here of, frying turkeys in big big oil vats or something like that in the garage. And and then it explodes and hot pours flaming hot oil all over their ceiling in the roof, and, yeah, it's not a good idea. But Yeah. I've never done that.
Brian:But, but now now I'm hungry. Man, it's only, like, it's only 7:30 in the morning, and I'm ready to go out and get some tempura. And that's not right.
Mariatta:Can I wait for lunch?
Brian:You you definitely have an accent. Where is that from?
Mariatta:I I grew up in Indonesia.
Brian:Okay.
Mariatta:But I I've I've been here for 23 years. 23 years. Yeah. I I came to Canada in 2000 to when I when I came, like, I graduated high school in Indonesia, and then I came to Canada to study computer science. And I guess I just stayed here.
Mariatta:I graduated, got married, have children, have a job, and I've been here.
Brian:Okay.
Mariatta:Mhmm.
Brian:Have you been, developing Python for, you said 15 years. Is that's, so almost that whole
Mariatta:time. Yeah. Not the whole time, but I guess, yeah. I've actually, when I when I studied computer science, I learned we learned Java and c sharp. And my first of my first few jobs was in c sharp.
Mariatta:Actually, using c sharp, we built Windows apps, embedded apps as well. Yeah. But around 20 18, 2019 no. Sorry. 2008 or 2009, because I'm extra wondering there.
Mariatta:My the company I work at, started doing more with it's like a web consulting company. So they started, consulting and got a job to build web applications using Python and using Google App Engine at the time. Like, basically, my my current project ended, and I just got moved to this team that works on Python. So that's that's how we started I work. I yeah.
Mariatta:I I've started developing in Python ever since.
Brian:Cool. Mhmm. And, I think we definitely, all of us are the better for having you involved with the community. Your your talks are very inspiring and very, emotional often. And and I think it's it's good.
Brian:It's a good, mix. Anyway, at least every all the talks I've watched of yours are are fairly emotional. And Yep.
Mariatta:Thank you.
Brian:That's fine. I don't think I watched the API one. APIs are kind of my, not really my thing. Everybody's thing is APIs. But, I I definitely wanna watch that because, yeah, I I it's one of those places where if people people already know this, but that's where you have to focus a lot.
Brian:It's a kind of a combination between engineering and communication, to try to get an API correct. So
Mariatta:Yes. Yeah. Maybe I can talk more about this talk. There's API for that. I gave it as a a keynote at Python Columbia and also a shorter version one at recently at women who code, summit.
Mariatta:I don't know if the talk is out yet, but, basically, I'm just telling people, like, how to work with third party APIs. In my case, I use APIs to build GitHub bots to make automation. Right? Just like GitHub bots uses API. It's possible because of API.
Mariatta:As well as when I built my aquarium cam camera, I needed an API to post my photos online. Like, I didn't wanna host my own website web service to do that. So I talk about how to get started using third party APIs because, initially, for me, I it was difficult concept. Like, I how is it possible I'm able to do things on GitHub? Right?
Mariatta:It's it's a third party app. Yeah. I write code inside GitHub, but it's it's using APIs to make function calls to external parties. And one of the tips I shared is that you gotta make use of client libraries, library like git GitHub, to abstract away the little details. When I learned when I started using APIs be in the beginning, I found that they would have they would have reference.
Mariatta:Like, they share like, the documentation shows, like, these are all the API endpoints. This is how you need to to create API token, or you need to pass in certain request headers and all of that. Right? The it's supposed to be the job of the client library to abstract away all of these little details. So that's that's one of the tips I share.
Mariatta:And I guess that's why Brad Cannon created git GitHub, to have something to abstract things in Python. So
Brian:That and it's one of the things I I often look for if I'm I'm trying to get access to a service a service is I will, search for the API, but I also add the Python keyword because I wanna see
Mariatta:Mhmm.
Brian:If people, have a Python library or something or wrapper around it. The Yeah. They they're I I have occasionally, and it's actually it's it's an interesting thing. It's people I think people should check out the API also, not just the wrapper because, because sometimes some service might have some really good and a lot of it comes down to documentation. Some people might have a a fairly decent API to begin with and, and really great documentation around it, and it might not be that bad to use.
Brian:And then the the wrapper, the Python, implementation that calls it to, like you know, so that you could just have a Python library, That might be, like, more complicated to use with worse documentation. So I guess just be careful. But
Mariatta:Yeah. I I agree. Yeah. And I think that's that's why the the provider was supposed to have good, yes, good documentation, good APIs, and client libraries. Like and I I found they they call this thing differently.
Mariatta:Like, you mentioned the wrapper. I've heard people say it, SDKs.
Brian:Oh, yeah. Software developer kit. Yeah.
Mariatta:Yeah. Yeah. Slack Slack used the term SDK, I think. And at at Google when I work at Google, we call it client libraries. But some some I I I try to look into HackMD APIs.
Mariatta:They have APIs, but they don't have Python libraries yet. So maybe that's an idea for people to
Brian:Well, I hopefully
Mariatta:new new project.
Brian:With Python's popularity, it it is becoming more, more regular or maybe it always has been, that there's the, the service that's that's providing this the company providing the service, might support the Python binding also, or at least a Python binding. So that's a decent place to look. But they also one of the the interesting bits, I think, is the the if it's a company supported one, they're gonna make sure that you can do absolutely everything with the Python, library. But sometimes, there's just too much in the API, and you really mostly just wanna do a handful of things easier. And so sometimes I find these more limited, libraries that just, just show you the common things.
Brian:Sometimes they're easier to to work with because it, you know, it hides all the stuff you don't care about. Or anyway, a p APIs is a huge topic.
Mariatta:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Brian:What so and so did you think I guess, I wanna swing back to to public speaking a little bit. When you got involved with with Python and, and everything, when at at what point did you think, yeah. I wanna I wanna do public speaking also?
Mariatta:Actually, it came my the, the the the thought came kinda early, actually, when I I never thought of giving talks before. I never thought it's something I would do. But when I I attended my first picon was picon US 2015 in Montreal. Python US in Montreal, Canada. That was my first ever conference Python conference.
Mariatta:I've been to another conference before, more academic ones, where the presenters would be, like, you know, PhD students or something or the another conference a small conference I attended. Like, I feel like the speakers were all CEO of something. Like, seems like you have to be big and high up in the ranks to be giving talks. But when I attended Bicon US, I saw lots of people and not necessarily the CEO, CTO, something. They're just they're they're community members.
Mariatta:I'm like, just like me. Like, they're engineers, just like me at the time, and I felt like, oh, so this is a thing that a person like me could do, and I felt really inspired. And I saw lots of women speakers as well at that time. Like, I saw Nina's talk Nina Zaka Renko talk. Ashuini, I don't know how to say her last name, but she gave talk as well about code reviews, and about security.
Mariatta:So I thought, oh, this is interesting. Like, I saw I saw these women, and I thought it's so inspiring. Like, maybe I can be a speaker just like them. That's that's when I started becoming interested in doing this just because I saw other women doing it. Oh, that's great.
Mariatta:Yeah. And I thought I didn't I think I I tried to submit a few talks after that. I I didn't get into PyCon 2016, but I did, like, started giving talks in that year. 20 16, 16, was my first talk conference talk at JungleCon US. And then, like, I just continued.
Mariatta:Like, I thought, this is this is cool. It's a new skill. I wanna learn more on how to do well at giving talks, so I just I I just continued. And somehow, by continuing, I I started to get invited to a lot of talks. So to a lot of conferences and events.
Mariatta:So I just keep continuing.
Brian:I think it's a it's not easy to I I didn't think it was easy to get into public speaking. It's a very it's a it's definitely a different thing than anything else I've done in life.
Mariatta:Mhmm.
Brian:But very beneficial, and I'm glad that I've Yeah. Taken that path. So
Mariatta:It is it's scary. Right? I still I think I still like, before my talk, I would be even now, even last year, like, I would be, like, I don't know, nervous. I'm gonna be pacing back and forth, like, worrying. It's it's still scary thing.
Mariatta:But once you're on stage, you just do what you practice, and and then it feels good afterwards.
Brian:That but that mini thing of like that, even even if you've practiced a lot, which I recommend everybody do practice. Listen, but then that's my big tip. Practice a lot. All the other tips don't matter if you haven't practiced your talk. At least that that's for me.
Brian:The Mhmm. But, but that whole emotional roller coaster of, like, I'm excited about this. I'm excited about this, and, oh my god, it's scary, and people are gonna laugh at me or something or whatever. I always think, like, I'm gonna forget something. But I I just I'll have a fear of just freezing in the middle and not moving, I guess.
Brian:I don't know. Mhmm. But all these sort of things. And then and then get like you said, giving it. But that whole that a mini version of that happens, I've noticed afterwards that that happens in life all the time.
Brian:Little mini versions of I need to talk to somebody, and I'm not sure how to do it. And and then but I like, okay. Well, I just think about sort of what I wanna say and just get it done. That like, many versions of that happen all the time, and and I'm way better at those mini versions now after dealing with the big version of giving a talk. Have you found that communicating in a small scale is easier now?
Mariatta:I'm not sure, but I I haven't heard it like like that. But you're totally right that the mini versions, that is the mini version. I do feel easier to communicate with people. Now, like, before, I probably, like I've people will say if you know me from before, people will say, like, Marietta is so quiet. She never talks.
Mariatta:But it I do think it it helps, like, I to for me to be more easier to to open up to people now, knowing that people don't actually at least I know Python people don't actually laugh at my talks, like, knowing that I'm among people I trust who will accept me and, like like, willing to to to chat and listen to my talks. So I do find it I do find it useful.
Brian:Well, wonderful. Yeah. And I really enjoyed having you here today and talking with you. We're definitely a a, a very important and huge part of the Python community, and thank you for everything you've done.
Mariatta:Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.
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