Python People

Brian: 00:00

Well, hello, Michael.

Michael: 00:03

Hey, Brian. Good to be here with you, but in a slightly different venue, I suppose.

Brian: 00:08

Yeah. So, I'm excited. This is a the first episode of a brand new podcast, Python People. And you're a Python People person, people. So

Michael: 00:19

I am a Python people. And congratulations on the new podcast. What a cool, venture you're launching here and, you know, a different angle, a different take.

Brian: 00:29

Right before we recorded, you said, is this gonna be video also or just audio? And I'm not sure yet. So we we may do we I may I may post the video. I may not. We'll see.

Brian: 00:41

And, it's kind of I'm okay with building this new podcast kind of with the with the public and have people help me decide things. That's fine. So, Michael, you Michael Kennedy is here. You are fairly well known in the Python community. You've got Talk Python Talk Python, the podcast, which is, what, over 400 episodes now.

Brian: 01:04

And,

Michael: 01:05

It is over 400 episodes. 8 years.

Brian: 01:07

8 years?

Michael: 01:08

Which is insane.

Brian: 01:09

Yeah. I feel like

Michael: 01:10

I just started that thing. What's going on?

Brian: 01:13

That's incredible. Quite an accomplishment. Not only that, but you built the back end for it. Right?

Michael: 01:21

Yeah. That's all Python code running running there. Did the web design. It's beanie and MongoDB and async and await and all the good stuff.

Brian: 01:34

Okay. And then you took that, built a Talk Python training. When did Talk Python training start? Do you remember?

Michael: 01:43

About a year later. I've been doing the podcast as kind of, you know, over my lunch hour or outside of business hours while I was working in a company. And that company was a education a developer education company. So there was there was no way I could do courses and not, you know, get somehow in trouble with, like, hey. We hired you to do this, and then you're also doing that.

Michael: 02:08

And so, anyway, that seems a little like a conflict of an interest. So I had to wait a while till I could do the courses, until I had enough traction, stability that I could quit my job and just go, alright, just I'm just writing courses now. That's what I'm doing. Thank you. The podcast going.

Brian: 02:23

I I did a quick count. Looked like 42 courses, or something.

Michael: 02:29

Yeah. Yeah.

Brian: 02:30

So they you're still growing?

Michael: 02:32

40 hours or so. Yeah. I have actually been frantically recording another one that's gonna go out ideally this week. We'll see. So it's a lot more loose ends to coordinate on those kinds of things than you would imagine.

Brian: 02:45

Yeah. And, and Python bytes, of course, you do that as well. So another podcast. Yeah.

Michael: 02:50

We've been doing that a long time, and that's super fun. I really like that format too. It's just like, here's a bunch of cool stuff I found and a bunch of cool stuff you found. I mean, you know,

Brian: 02:59

just be as bad as

Michael: 03:00

the audience that yeah. They like to be us with us as well. So it's fun.

Brian: 03:04

So I guess, how is all that going? How are are you still enjoying podcasting and courses and and this this this chapter of your life? Is it going well?

Michael: 03:16

Yeah. It's going well. I am really enjoying it. One of the things that I've come to realize, and I'm sure a lot of people have as well, is over time as you you do these things, they kind of build up. There's there's this friction, a friction of life, a friction of things.

Michael: 03:33

Right? There's like accounting and coordination and support emails and stuff. So the one if if I could wish for more wish for anything different, it would just be honestly, just more focus on those things that you highlighted there and less time on, you know, why did the Mailchimp API change in a breaking way and now people can't sign up for this thing? And I'm like, okay, I was going to write a course this morning, but maybe I'll rewrite my Mailchimp integration. Sounds like it does it.

Michael: 04:03

You know, like that kind of friction is around, but focused on the important, the good stuff that actually benefits people. Yeah, I love it. It's great.

Brian: 04:15

This isn't passive. This is a lot of work, right?

Michael: 04:18

It is a lot of work. Yeah, it's good work and it's it's, you know, certainly decent money, but it's not it's not that I just go sit on the beach and, you know, a couple hours a day.

Brian: 04:33

But you can't Like,

Michael: 04:34

for example

Brian: 04:35

You can't take a couple weeks vacation and stuff just keeps going. Right? So

Michael: 04:39

That's true. Absolutely. Yeah. And Yeah. Luckily, you know, Python's plenty good.

Michael: 04:45

The website's plenty good. The thing will keep running if I don't do anything for it. Right? It's not I can't remember the last time I got a message like, oh my gosh, the website is down or this thing is broken. Like, it's almost never.

Michael: 04:56

So in that regard, yeah, I can just like, hey, let me take a week. In fact, very soon after we're done talking, I'm jumping in the car for a good good vacation along the beach.

Brian: 05:07

So you're going to the beach. I hope you have fun.

Michael: 05:11

Yeah. A warm beach farther away from not in Oregon. We have cold beaches. They're beautiful, but they're freezing.

Brian: 05:16

But they're beautiful, though. And there's, like, usually good food nearby. So there's that.

Michael: 05:23

Yeah.

Brian: 05:24

But we you do a whole well, like, what other stuff do you do? I know that you ride a motorcycle.

Michael: 05:31

Yeah. A lot of people grow up playing stick and ball sports, you know, soccer. I think some people call that football. I don't know if you heard that, Brian. I played football.

Michael: 05:40

I played football too. You tackle each other a lot. The one I'm thinking of, you don't get as many penalties for tackling. But that was, I couldn't play that in any organized way. I was a relatively small kid, I would have been crushed by the other people playing American football.

Michael: 05:59

So my sport when I was growing up was motocross. So I raced motorcycles and, you know, and Really? Flying for the jumps. Yeah. Yeah.

Michael: 06:06

Yeah.

Brian: 06:07

Wow. So when did you start riding racing?

Michael: 06:11

I started riding motorcycles. I was visiting my mom. My parents were separated. I was there for like a month. There was just not anything to do because I didn't have any of my friends around.

Michael: 06:22

Like I went far away to stay with her. So they're just, I didn't know kids from school and stuff. But there was this old motorcycle in the garage and they said, you know, if you get that running, you can ride it. So my brothers and I, like, we are like, we have a mission. We have nothing to do, and there's a motorcycle.

Michael: 06:37

If we get it running, we're gonna get it we get to ride it all summer. So we spent a week and we rebuilt it and got it running, and and that was that. So I started racing probably when I was 13 or so and raced till I was, like, I don't know, 19. I had to kinda get serious about college and stuff, but it was fun. Really fun.

Brian: 06:55

And that that that's, like, with all the jumps and stuff. Yeah. Did you ever have any crashes?

Michael: 07:02

Couple. Got knocked out a couple times. Oh, geez. But, you know, when you think you had a couple, like over 6 years, right, it wasn't something that was super common. But, you know, a couple a couple, but they were not too serious.

Michael: 07:18

I, one time, kinda fell probably 15 feet out of the sky and landed flat on the ground. The motorcycle hit landed on top of me. That that one hurt, but it took a few days.

Brian: 07:31

He said yeah. That's a so, what part of the country were you in at that point? Are you in Oregon at that point?

Michael: 07:40

That was Kansas City. Yeah. That was Kansas City. There was some actually right by Missouri. There was actually some good racetracks out there and some some pretty cool people.

Michael: 07:47

So we'd you know, on the weekend, we'd pack up the bikes, and my brothers also race. So we'd all go out and, you know, just drive an hour to some racetrack and spend Saturday or Sunday there just fooling around, having fun. Okay. Seeing what we could do, trying different jumps and whatnot.

Brian: 08:04

Wait. So you were you the, middle or younger younger brother? The oldest. You were

Michael: 08:11

the oldest. I have 2 younger brothers. Yeah.

Brian: 08:12

Okay.

Michael: 08:13

The trailblazer.

Brian: 08:15

That's pretty cool. Yeah. Wow. And then you still ride, though. You don't race anymore, though, do

Michael: 08:24

you? No. I don't race. Like, you bounce when you're a kid. You snap when you get older.

Michael: 08:29

It's not ideal. So I don't do any of that, but I, I've gotten into what's called adventure riding, where you get bikes that could go farther. And my goal, we have here on the West Coast of the US something pretty awesome called the BDR, Backcountry Discovery Routes. Okay. And these are pretty well known trails that go, well, there's one that goes all the way from Mexico to Canada and goes right through Oregon.

Michael: 08:57

So, my goal is to traverse Oregon completely, almost completely off road through the mountains and the forest and the desert. You know, it's like if you if you I guess they said something like 9 days, 100 a 1000 miles or 900 miles, something like that. It's really far because it's so curvy, weavy, not straight, because it has to wind around little mountains and streams and and stuff. So I don't know if I'll be able to do that this summer, but part of it for sure.

Brian: 09:27

Well, okay. So question about that. The, maybe I don't get it. I mean, it sounds interesting. Do do you but motorcycles have, like, little tiny gas tanks.

Michael: 09:40

Yeah. Well, it they kind of the way the works, it'll, like, maybe go over a mountain, for 40 miles and it'll dip into a little road that'll connect over to the next section. And usually, in those little connecting areas, you can find some gas or Okay. Some supplies or something. So you probably would only go a 150 miles on one tank.

Brian: 09:59

And then are you, like, camping during that? Or are you okay. Okay.

Michael: 10:03

Yeah. Usually. I mean, certainly, it would be fine to not camp if you can find a hotel. But sometimes, you know, there's a big stretch where there's I don't think there's a really proper place to stay. So throw one of those little tiny hiking tents on the back and those little blow up sleeping bag things.

Brian: 10:21

Have you done any, like, short, and these are these are trails. Right?

Michael: 10:27

So Yeah. Yeah. Some of them are like fire roads where maybe a truck or a logging truck might go, and some are more like almost just little trails. Yeah.

Brian: 10:37

And have you done, like, shorter versions of this so far already?

Michael: 10:41

Let's see. It's Monday. So Friday, I was out, did a 150 mile ride just in in practice out on the mountains by the coast here.

Brian: 10:50

Okay, have fun.

Michael: 10:51

Yeah, it took all day, but it was excellent. We climbed to the top of a mountain, had just like an amazing view. And you're just, you're so far out there. You're just out in nature. It's really amazing to just go, you know what?

Michael: 11:02

Let's go 20 miles that way and just see. Where do you see where that goes?

Brian: 11:06

And is that something you're doing solo, or are you doing it with, like, a a group of people?

Michael: 11:10

Or I have

Brian: 11:11

a I

Michael: 11:11

have a good friend who, usually, a lot of times will come along, but, sometimes it's solo. It's you gotta be more careful when it's solo. Okay.

Brian: 11:21

Yeah.

Michael: 11:22

Right. Don't wanna be because it's pretty far out there. Right? You don't wanna, like just, like, well, now I gotta walk 20 miles. Oh, no.

Brian: 11:29

Right. Yeah. If you if you're, if you have mechanical problems or an injury or something.

Michael: 11:34

Exactly. Yeah.

Brian: 11:35

Yeah. So

Michael: 11:36

Cool. I could probably go over that big rock or jump over that log, but if it breaks the motorcycle, I could I could fix it, but I'm really far out here. I gotta, you know, consider the consequences. So you kinda kinda gotta keep that in mind.

Brian: 11:50

Okay. Do you have, like, a, like an emergency set of tools to work on your bike?

Michael: 11:54

I do. I have a little pack that goes on the back, and it's got things for tire changing, inner tubes for the motorcycle tires, a little tiny, tiny pump. There's a few basic. You might be able to fix it. If you broke the engine, you're done.

Michael: 12:10

But, you know, if you broke a tire, you're probably okay.

Brian: 12:13

Okay. Interesting. Wow. Fascinating. And and, so I'm I'm imagining it's kinda like a hike, but on I was imagining it's kinda like a hike, but on a motorcycle.

Brian: 12:27

But you're saying that you're, like, you're hitting jumps and stuff. Are you doing are you doing jumps and

Michael: 12:32

No. No. Not not really. More like they'll be, you know, they'll be a fallen tree or something, and you just kinda, like, wheelie over the tree. Okay.

Michael: 12:40

Or something like keep going. Right? Like, not not the jumps of the motocross days.

Brian: 12:45

Okay. Not like that. Like, I, downhill, like, crazy, x games.

Michael: 12:53

You gotta have mountain biking stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Brian: 12:55

Yeah. Okay. Used to

Michael: 12:56

do that too actually before I got back into motorcycling. Did you? Yeah, I lived in California. And we would, in the summers, we would take our mountain bikes. I lived in San Diego, we'd take our mountain bikes up to Big Bear and Red Bull would build a downhill racetrack with all those crazy jumps and stuff you see on TV.

Michael: 13:14

And if you go there a little before, a little after, the track would be there and you could ride on it and they would hook your bicycle, your mountain bike onto the chairlift, take you to the top and you would bomb down it, put it back on the chairlift and go back up again. It's like the best kind of bicycling, it's just downhill.

Brian: 13:30

That sounds actually like a lot of fun.

Michael: 13:33

It's super fun. And you don't have to be crazy. Right? You can just roll over the scary stuff. Right?

Brian: 13:39

Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's all is this so it's all downhill. So is it still a lot of work? Or is it You

Michael: 13:49

would think absolutely, oh, it's no work. You just ride the chair lift up. But the you're going down so steep, and you got to keep hitting the brakes. So, it's like kind of like doing a bunch of push ups, right? Like, you got to stop yourself.

Michael: 14:00

Every time you've got, oh, we're slowing down. So, It's

Brian: 14:03

like, oh. Oh, yes. Right.

Michael: 14:04

And that it's actually pretty heavy work if you're going fast.

Brian: 14:08

Okay. Your arms are probably getting a decent workout then.

Michael: 14:11

Oh, yeah. You're done at the bottom. You're like, I need a break. My my arms cannot take this anymore. My hands can't take it anymore.

Brian: 14:19

Cool. Yeah. And have you ever done so that was a did you ever do I don't know what the that was in California. Have you ever done something like that at altitude? Because I know you can There's people doing crazy stuff like that up in, near Denver and things in,

Michael: 14:34

not very much. I Okay. Not much.

Brian: 14:36

Okay. The other thing, so you just kinda like to go fast.

Michael: 14:43

Yeah. I suppose that's probably a fly, I guess.

Brian: 14:48

Well, you also have, like, a, like, a awesome setup for doing simulated racing. Right?

Michael: 14:56

I do. I really it's something that I really enjoy. I don't know. I I get into these sports where you can kind of just like work on, like, practice one little thing, get a little better and better. And and and car stuff is certainly like that.

Michael: 15:10

Like, it would be nice to race real cars in real events and do things like that. But practice, I think it means a lot of mechanics, like being a make not like physics, but like actually being a mechanic of, you know, changing out those broken piece and whatnot. And none of that really appeals to me. So the compromise or whatever is I ended up getting this sim racing setup. People don't know what that is.

Michael: 15:35

You get like a wheel that has really fine racing wheel setup that has really fine but strong force feedback to communicate what's happening on the road. Then there's a handful of simulators, game type things that you can play. The one that I like to play the most probably is iRacing. And you only race against real people. There's not like a storyline or computer players.

Michael: 16:03

They have scheduled races. So, you know, at 2 and 4 and 6 PM, there's a race on this racetrack with this type of cars. And it draws in really, really good people. Like, I've I've, raced against a couple of the IndyCar Champions. Somebody who used to be a Formula 1 racer.

Michael: 16:22

And so, you know, you get to sit down and, like, spend 30 minutes in a competition with some really interesting situations and people and stuff. So it's just it's it is pretty cool. So I have, what's called a Fanatec, racing wheel and pedals and all that and, like, set up and yeah. It's it's neat.

Brian: 16:44

And a seat that looks like is it an actual car seat? Or

Michael: 16:49

It's not actually a car seat, but it you know, I could be convinced that it is a car seat. And all this got started during COVID, by the way. I'm like, well, if I'm gonna be locked in the house for a couple years, what can I do? You know, let's, let's get one of these things and and try. So

Brian: 17:03

Well, you are in Portland. There is a racetrack here. Have you ever been on a

Michael: 17:08

Yes, there is a really cool racetrack.

Brian: 17:10

Have you ever been on?

Michael: 17:11

I've only been on Portland International Raceway. I've been on it multiple times to park. So you go to an event there, sometimes you park inside of the track instead of the outside and they'll have it open, you drive across for a moment. Then I got to get out of the way racing. Okay.

Michael: 17:29

So that to that extent, I have.

Brian: 17:31

Okay. I

Michael: 17:31

was actually there on Saturday watching the Formula E race, which was way more, popular than I expected. Sold out. It's crazy.

Brian: 17:40

Wow. Since it's fascinating, this is like I've never been I've never really watched racing too much or or done much of it. I was more of a solo sport sort of person, skateboards Yeah. Stuff. So Yeah.

Brian: 17:57

Yeah.

Michael: 17:58

I know you're a big skateboarder. That's awesome.

Brian: 18:00

But the, but I I hear you with the, the age thing does make a difference. Last time I was last time I went skateboard, and I, like, just took a minor fall. Like, it was it was would have been something I wouldn't even, like, told anybody about as a kid. And I was out for, like, the rest of the day. I'm like, oh my god.

Brian: 18:20

Oh, no.

Michael: 18:23

Yeah. Skateboarding, even more than motorcycling, you gotta kinda bounce instead of brake. I'm always, when I watch people really skateboarding, I think just, you know, they just seem to like crash out and, like, oh, whatever and bounce back up, you know, wearing a hat for a helmet, that kind of thing. You know?

Brian: 18:40

Yeah. Yeah. You learn how to roll, and

Michael: 18:42

Yes. Of course.

Brian: 18:43

In the right way. So yeah. And then, snowboarded for a while, but did you do you do any, winter sports?

Michael: 18:50

Yeah. I'd love skiing. Okay. I only got up, like, a couple times, 3 times, or 4 times last year. But, yeah, I like skiing.

Michael: 18:57

I've always wanted to snowboard. It looks maybe even more fun. But there's this this trough of despair you have to go through. Like, I've already fallen when I was young and become not great, but, you know, fine with skiing. I could ski a whole day without falling.

Michael: 19:12

Let's say that. Okay. But if I want to learn, snowboarding, well then I'm gonna have to end up falling for like 3 or 4 days till I can just do basic things again. And I've never I've never decided, like, this vacation is a day, the vacation where I'm just not doing very much other than, like, kind of bounce around. So I have never learned snowboarding, but it looks so fun.

Brian: 19:37

Yeah. The the reason why I get into it is I was never I I liked skiing, but I only got I got good enough to be able to go fast, but not good enough to not wipe out all the time. And, and, like, when you when you actually could get good enough to, like, start going kind of fast, when you wipe out, your stuff's everywhere. You got, like, 2 skis and 2 poles. It takes a while to get it all that collected again.

Brian: 20:04

And, with a snowboard, at least, I don't I haven't been out for a decade probably, but, I didn't have to pick anything up. They're strapped it's strapped to your feet. It doesn't go anywhere. So

Michael: 20:16

Goes with you.

Brian: 20:17

Yeah. For for for better or worse, had a had a ankle injury because it because it stopped and I didn't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Brian: 20:28

But, yeah. Yeah. Lots of fun. Well, it's it seems pretty fun. Do you kinda have a so the motorcycling, the the simulated racing, have your kids picked up any of these things?

Brian: 20:43

Kids

Michael: 20:44

Kids who want to go motorcycling. They want to get their motorcycle license. I'm not sure I want to encourage them to go out and be out with cars. For all the dangers, I think it sounds like that some of these motorcycle things I described, like jumping over high jumps or, like, going far, none of that compares to just, like, the old guy that's looking right and turns left or, you know, the the teenager texting. Right?

Michael: 21:09

Like, you don't control those things. Right? And they're so I haven't yet said, sure. Let's let's teach you how to ride the motorcycle, but they do want to. But, certainly, the skiing, they're they're definitely into that.

Brian: 21:23

So so you you do you do ride a motorcycle just, like, in on the streets now.

Michael: 21:32

And is that for commuting because I don't go anywhere. I just you have I just like, we have beautiful mountain roads around here, you know, and just

Brian: 21:42

You have to go out in the weather to commute. You have to, like, the slight part of your house that you have to go from one part to another.

Michael: 21:50

My office and, like, where we're recording this and where I do all the the courses and podcasts and stuff is in the garage, which is technically separated from the house by a sidewalk. So, yeah, I got a I got a crossover. It's actually beautiful because it's peaceful no matter what's going on in the house. If the dogs are barking or the kids are home for summer, you know, school's out in the summer. It's still nice and quiet.

Michael: 22:12

I love it.

Brian: 22:13

So you have the girls had any desire to do, like, off road motorcycling?

Michael: 22:23

Yeah. The problem is I don't have any off road motorcycle other than this big adventure bike, which is like way, way too big to learn on for them. So I'd be glad to get a little offered motorcycle, but then I need a truck.

Brian: 22:37

Oh, yeah.

Michael: 22:38

It's like I got to buy a truck so that I can buy a cheap inexpensive motorcycle, and I just haven't haven't gone there.

Brian: 22:46

Okay. I didn't really think about that. When I was, there was a a family that had, motorcycles when I was growing up that, we lived kinda out outskirts of town, and they had, an orchard where they sold fruit and stuff like that. And, so we could ride the motorcycles through there. I don't think they ever went anywhere with them.

Brian: 23:07

Like, the Yeah. Nobody had licenses because it was just dirt pads and stuff like that. But Right.

Michael: 23:12

Yeah. That's beautiful, though. You can just you already have, like, a really nice area, I'm sure, on the orchard cruise around.

Brian: 23:18

Yeah. It was a little terrifying to go fair I mean, what I thought of fast is, like, you know, slightly faster than I could run, but, but it's it's harder to stop a motorcycle than it is to stop when you're running. You're going through those trees and everything. But the, anyway, kind of kind of fun. So, any other, like, speed sports that you do that you, we haven't covered?

Michael: 23:43

No. I think that that that probably covers the speed sport. The only other real hobby, I guess, that I would throw in there is, billiards. I spent Oh,

Brian: 23:51

I did not know this.

Michael: 23:54

Listen, this is both it's kind of interesting and cool, but also a testament to how bad minimum wage used to be in the US. So when I was in high school, I worked at a pizza place and I would would make, like, a very meager amount of money throughout the day, you know, as a junior in high school or something. And then I would go out with my friends at night and play pool for, like, competitions, tournaments, gambling under the right circumstances, you know, like, hey, $20 or whoever wins, like, first five games sort of thing. And I realized over the summer that I would work 8 hours at this pizza place and I would go work 2 hour work play for 2 hours at the pool hall and make more money than I did all day. So eventually, I quit my pizza job and just went and played pool for like a year or something.

Brian: 24:50

Really?

Michael: 24:51

Yeah. It was excellent. You're But I say it's also a better statement on minimum wage because you didn't have to do that well to make more than speed. It was, like, $3, 3.50 an hour or something. It was it was bad pay.

Brian: 25:04

Yeah. I mean, when I was I started flipping burgers at 3.35 an hour.

Michael: 25:08

With Exactly.

Brian: 25:09

Back then. And my daughter so I was tell telling my daughter this once, and she said, but but cost of living was so much less. And I'm like, I don't think it was comparable. So I I, like, did the chart, and, I don't know. Minimum wage at least here is, I don't know, $11 or something.

Brian: 25:29

I don't know.

Michael: 25:29

I think it's, 14 now. It's been going they're working towards 15. Yeah. It's pretty high. And it should be Relatively.

Brian: 25:36

Yeah. I think that's right. But the the cost so that's, like, 5 times almost 5 times what it was when we started. Cost of living hasn't gone up 5 times since then. It it's maybe doubled, but, yeah, not 5 times.

Brian: 25:51

But, and I'm like, no. It was it was terrible. I said, I I worked, like, 2 weeks, and my paycheck, I bought a pair of shoes. That's what I did with my 1st paycheck.

Michael: 26:02

So you could've quit that job and got him played pool.

Brian: 26:05

I could have. Well, no. I lived in It was

Michael: 26:07

really fun, actually. It was

Brian: 26:08

really great. I lived in Pullman, Washington at the time. There's, like, nothing there. It was like a coffee shop and a I don't know. There's it there's a university, but, as a high skinny high school kid, I couldn't get a job at the university.

Brian: 26:21

So yeah. But, anyway, well, so let's, change direction a little bit. I'm really glad that I got I didn't know that about you. And that's kinda what I wanna do with this podcast is I wanna, like, try to get to know the people in the Python community and get to know them more as, like, people, and the some of the stuff they do in their free time, some passion hobbies or whatever. And one of the so I've asked a handful of people, and one of the questions that came back was, you're not stepping on Michael's toes, are you?

Brian: 26:54

Because they they don't want me to, like, try to redo talk Python, and I I don't think I am. So, I guess I'll do this in public. Michael, are you okay with me starting another podcast?

Michael: 27:05

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, one, I'm here, and certainly congratulate you on that. I think it's totally fine.

Michael: 27:13

I think there's there are many angles and many stories, and I guess the thing that is common through Talk Python is this and this. It's the reason I started Talk Python is I did wanna learn about libraries and packages like Flask or SQL Alchemy or whatever, but you could learn about those online. Right? I I won't you don't want the the sterilized, distilled, just here's the 3 API calls. Like, you why was that created?

Michael: 27:41

Who created it? You know, what was the journey to create those things? Right? So there's there's a kind of a human like, what's the human side

Brian: 27:50

of, you

Michael: 27:50

know, the Python technology? But certainly, you know, the showcase is one project or or one bit of code on Talk Python. And, you know, here the focus is the person. Right? They might be doing Python stuff, but also, you know, they might be racing motorcycles.

Michael: 28:09

Yeah. I I think it's they they're very, compatible. I don't think it's a, an arm wrestling match at all. Nothing like that.

Brian: 28:17

I was thinking about that in terms of, like, a, also in terms of a a Python or conference. I wouldn't go to a conference with 1 speaker. There's 7 days in the week. I'm all for at least 7 good Python podcasts out there. So, anyway

Michael: 28:31

For sure.

Brian: 28:31

Thanks for being the first guest, and thanks for talking with

Michael: 28:35

me. Yeah. Thanks for having me on the show and, you know, good luck with the podcast. It's gonna be fun to see the progress.