Nikita Karamov - Russia, Germany, Django, and Jazzband
Thanks for reaching out and asking to be on the show.
Nikita:Thanks for letting me in because I think of all the guests, at least those that appeared on the podcast, until today, I'm, like, the least famous one, if one can even call me that. So but I I just was listening to the first episode when I heard, you're having an idea for this add a person button to the website or become a person. So I just decided to just reach out before the button was even there.
Brian:Oh, wonderful. Well, thank you. You use Python on a regular basis. How long have you used Python?
Nikita:Actually, it's almost 10 years at this point, but the first 5 years has been have been so so flaky, because I first discovered Python when I was actually studying or not studying, learning how to make Android apps. And one of the parts of the curriculum was, APIs with Python, hosted with Google App Engine. And this is how I first got introduced to the language. And I remember having a lot of issues with it at the begin in the beginning because, especially with Python 2, Yeah. Which couldn't handle Unicode strings or at least I couldn't really figure out how to handle Unicode strings.
Nikita:And I remember having an API which would before sending everything to the server, to Google App Engine, it would transform everything into base 64 and then decode it client side because it just couldn't figure out how to, save strings with non Latin characters in there. But after that, when I started studying at the university, we've had a Python and Django course, and this is how I picked up Python in the second time in my life. And I've been doing it ever since for basically every everything I do, every little idea that I have, I try to make with Python.
Brian:Okay. So you learned Python and Django at the same time?
Nikita:Or Yes. This well, the fur this was a course at the university, and the first two lectures were, like, Python syntax basics and everything. And then we started doing more, with Django, but it was basically at the same time. Yeah.
Brian:Okay. That's pretty cool. I I know that a lot I've actually heard that some people came to Python, for Django. They were, like, learn Django first and then backfilled with whatever Python knowledge they needed, which is interesting. I definitely Python wasn't on my radar when I was in college.
Brian:So, speaking of college, you had you wrote down that you had some some notes on, college education.
Nikita:Yeah. So I started college back in 20 17. When I graduated from school, it was back in Russia. So I started at, my local university in Kazan. And after 2 years, I, have migrated to Germany and started studying here at the university.
Nikita:And, for me, there was I was really not planning this through. This was I mean, it wasn't spontaneous, but it wasn't really well planned either. So I just picked a city where I have already been in Germany, and I just picked the university that was in this city. And I kind of never looked to any other options. And this was a grave mistake because, when you look at the Germans Germany's higher education system, they have 2 main things.
Nikita:They have universities and they have the faculty schools or higher schools or whatever you wanna call them. And, speaking of diploma and prerequisites, they're both the same. But for me, my horizon was, like, so close that I thought university is something for, like, smart, successful people, someone, somebody like me as I thought of myself. And the other the higher schools is something, like, for those who haven't gotten into universities where, actually, the difference is that the universities is theoretical and the higher schools are more practical knowledge.
Brian:Oh,
Nikita:yeah. And for me, for as a person who just wants to write code and create projects, the theoretical education at the university was rather not the thing that I wanted and I expected for me. So this was, like, another 4 years of me studying maths and calculus and, theoretical stuff. A lot of interesting topics, but not those which in in which I would want to invest this much time and this much stress of with the whole exams and stuff.
Brian:I had no idea that the separation of universities existed before I got to college either. So, the and I actually don't even know what it's called. I guess, in the in the United States, there's a, there are differences. I think, at least in the in the northwest, they're separated often against, state universities and, I guess, nonstate. They're both they're both, like, public schools, but, like, for instance, your University of Oregon is where I got my CS degree, and it was more on the theoretical side, like you.
Brian:And Oregon State was more on the practical side, more, I guess, more engineering and less theory, I guess. I didn't really see it too much in computer science because, I mean, most of CS a lot of CS was, practical. But I probably I probably should've gone to, Oregon State, but I chased my girlfriend to Eugene, and that was in that was where U of O was. I didn't I didn't pick the I picked the city and then the school, not the other way around. I'm kinda glad that I did that, though, actually, because throughout my career, I've had more of a a big picture look at everything we're doing and everything I'm doing in in work to and I think maybe that I got that from the university.
Brian:So, anyway, so how how how far did you go? Did you did you get a, did you get a CS degree or whatever the equivalent is in Germany? Or
Nikita:Yeah. I I have gotten my, bachelor degree now. I still do not have the final GBA or whatever because one of the professors who looks at my bachelor thesis is in Berlin, which is not where I am. So this whole communication has to happen via paper posts. So they have to print out my thesis and then send it to him, and then he has to read it on paper, and then he has to, sign it with his pen and then send it back via post.
Nikita:So I still has do not know what my GBA is, But, yeah, I've got my bachelor degree. And, I actually was planning to do a master's right after this, but then I I just got so tired of university and the constant exams and the constant, courses. I just I just didn't want to do this anymore, and I just decided, no. I'm going to look for a job. And I actually have a job offer now, so pretty pretty fast how the things went for me, over the course of, like, a few months.
Brian:Okay. Awesome. Well, congrats congratulations. I hope that you have exciting, fun job. Is it is it, in person or remote?
Nikita:Or it's, hybrid. So the first 3 months are completely in person, and then I have, like, 60%, remote. And it's in a city next to mine, so I will have to, ride a train, like, 30 minutes one way and then 30 minutes back. But it's fine. The main thing for me that is that it's a Python and a Django job, which suits me well because in Germany, this is, like, a very hard thing to find a Python job because there are very little companies, very few companies who, are ready to work with Python.
Nikita:Most of them are still, like, in the Java age, and they say, yeah. We only want Java. Or even older, like, there are companies that still work with COBOL, source spaces. So, finding a Python job is definitely
Brian:That that's awesome.
Nikita:A cool thing.
Brian:You have been, you said you're the maintainer of Django Simple Menu?
Nikita:Yes. Or a maintainer? Yeah. I I guess I'm I'm a maintainer. I haven't really pushed new features or something like this, but I, so this is a lot of things that I do, a lot of things I contribute to, including Django simple menu, just come from my day to day little struggles, which aren't really problematic for others, but for me because I really love everything to be, structured and everything to be good looking clean code and all that.
Nikita:And, I was doing, like I I for my job, which was, like, a part time job at the university, I had to use a menu in a Django app, and I found this package. And I just noticed that it's still it hadn't a Python version set, and some bits of it were, like, Python 2. And, it was just, like, the project hasn't been updated for, like, a few years. And I have noticed that it's on jazz band, which is something that I've heard of before. And for those who don't know, this is like a union of, voluntarily, picked, Python developers who just support other open source projects in Python, mostly in Django world.
Nikita:So everyone can become a part of Jasban, and then one can push code to the repositories. And I have nominated myself as a, maintainer for the package just to make it work better on modern Python installations so that it doesn't spit out warnings when you try to install it or something.
Brian:Actually and This is awesome. I just, the I think things like this are really great. The, Pytest community has, the Pytest dev organization, which is, I guess, similar to the jazz band thing, which is, basic yeah. I if I'm getting this right, it's a collection of people that are, maintaining a collection of packages, but it doesn't Yep. Necessarily promise that it's actually gonna be maintained.
Brian:They just have the ability to. And this is this seems, like, almost silly at first, but it's not because, like, there's, packages that often get they're very useful, but that somebody, whoever developed them, has moved on in their career. Maybe they're not using it anymore. They don't really care about it anymore. And it's a bummer when those, like, don't get maintained anymore, if if people are still using them.
Brian:There's a one that I I started. I've just recently started maintaining or am going to start maintaining in the process of getting permissions and everything. For that very reason, the the the core developer, nothing wrong. He's not sick or anything. He's just not he's not using it anymore.
Brian:So, so there needs to be some other people, and it was cool that there was an organization there to say, hey. We'll reach out to the original contributor, make sure it's okay k for you to come on board and everything. And, jazz band, is is, at the very least, I think it's similar to that. Right?
Nikita:Yeah. It's actually, it was created for for the sole purpose of acquiring, packages that aren't maintained anymore so that the maintainer can, like, give it off to a bunch of people and one of them will have time. And in inside of Jasban, you can become, like, a actual maintainer of the package, which will give you access to releases and stuff. And, so this is not really a flash structure. It's like a 2 step structure.
Nikita:So you have all of the Jazz Band members. They can push code and stuff, but only the maintainers of specific package can upload, PyPI releases. And I think the most, popular Jasbend, acquired package is Pip Tools with the Pip compile.
Brian:Oh, cool.
Nikita:It's actually Jasmine also I I could actually, like, force push to the main branch and remove that code, but I I hope they have branch protections in place. So yeah.
Brian:They could undo it if you if you if you were to go on a rampage, I think we could fix it. But, but you wouldn't do that. So, what is what is, simple about the simple menu that you that isn't built into Django?
Nikita:It's like a mix. So if you want to have a menu in Django, you usually Django apps are, like, very determined. It's not like a CMS thing where you can have, like, some dynamic amount of items that you want to display in your menu bars or something. So mostly people who write Django, they use menus just with templates. So they just put the links to the pages that they need to in, directly in HTML code.
Nikita:And the other side of the compass is people who want to have it dynamic. So they create packages where you create menus inside of the Django admin, which are stored in the database, and the page can be updated based on this. And Django simple menu is sits right in between there where you do not want to write boilerplate HTML code for every link that, you want to display in your menu bar or something, and you also do not want to store it in a database, it allows you to write menus in Python files and, also add child menus. You can add some attributes, set icons, and all of this stuff. So it's basically yeah, code based menus for Django.
Brian:Yeah. I'm just looking at the little, simple menu example, and the example has, has your name in it. It's pretty cool.
Nikita:Yeah. This is the one thing that I did. The example was based on Django 1 or something. And when I came in, the the latest version was 4.0. So I updated it to the latest LTS at this time, like 3.2, and made it look a bit better so that it's clear what the package actually does and how it works.
Nikita:Yeah. Yeah.
Brian:So and how long have you been, helping out with this?
Nikita:I think it's about a year now. Okay. Yeah.
Brian:So so you've been using Django and Python for, you said or or maybe 10 ish years, but, the, but this for years. So do you think that your, I guess, your experience with Python and Django changed when you has changed from before you were helping contribute to after?
Nikita:It definitely has. I think, contributing to open source is the only thing that makes me actually good in certain languages because I have tried, like, multiple different language over the course of my lifetime, but I couldn't try to program in a single one of them except for, I guess, Python and JavaScript, the two languages that are primary for the projects that I do. So this is definitely the thing. I do not know if much, with Django because when I started working with Django, it was, like, job related. So I actually had, also a lot of interest in staying in Django and working with Django.
Nikita:Yeah. And the maintaining Django simple menu was at the first it felt to me at least like a job task even though it wasn't. So Okay. Yeah. But it definitely changes the mindset when you start working with open source.
Nikita:I think it's also because you start working with other people. And, like, when I used to write code 10 years prior, I would, I don't know, I I never really looked at code formatting at comments. I just wrote down anything that came to mind and I pushed it and it worked and I forgot about it. But now every time I write a line of code, I was I'm like thinking, will other people understand it when they come into my repository? Like after 5 years, will they be able to run it?
Nikita:Will they be able to decipher what my thought process was?
Brian:Nice. I think it's gonna make you a better programmer just in your career as well then, to open I think I have a hard time finding anything in open source that doesn't translate into closed source, well. So and also just yourself. I mean, the the the next maintainer might be you a year from now. So it's good to good good to leave a little notes so that you understand what you were talking about, unless you've got a way better memory than I do.
Brian:But, anyway, so you you moved from Russia to Germany during college?
Nikita:Yeah. I I basically, dropped off my Russian college and got to into a German college. And the Russian college part of my life, it wasn't really that serious for me or at least in the beginning. So it started because, I always wanted to go to German University, So I was planning this for a long time. But, Russian schools, they have 11 years of education and German schools have 12 or 13.
Nikita:So I couldn't get into German university because they would say, you don't have enough school education. And it wouldn't matter to them that I know Russian schools, for example, have classes on Saturdays, so we have a more packed program. And in those 11 years, we actually do learn stuff that Germans learn in 12 years. But in order for me to get into university, I had to spend at least 1 year at a Russian college or at any other college that would accept me. But of 1 year, this they became 2 because German bureaucracy made me apply very early on.
Nikita:And when it was time for me to apply, I haven't theoretically graduated the 1st year of Russian college, so they wouldn't accept me anyway. So I had to do a second year.
Brian:Okay. So the the you had the desire to, go to a German university for for a while. Is it what like, culturally, is it is living in Germany different from where you were before?
Nikita:Yes. It actually is. But I think it's in a good way different, at least for me, because, I guess, it's just everything follows the rules. You know? There are there's rules for everything.
Nikita:Everything that's happening is written down somewhere in some form. And many people, like, from Russia and from other from other countries, they find it quite difficult to adapt because they, like, think, oh, you can cut corners here and there, but in Germany, you kinda can't. So this is why.
Brian:And this this is a bonus for you, I guess?
Nikita:This is a bonus for me because everything is, really easy to prognose, I guess. It's just you know what what's going to happen, and you know how it's happening. And there is a reason things happen this way. And a lot of the times, it's there's not there are no good reasons or no good processes set in place, like, with the whole bureaucracy thing. But at the same time, I know that if I, I don't know, if I ride a bus and I sit on a seat in the bus, I know that the minimum width of the seat in the bus is written down somewhere.
Nikita:So it's there is a law that says how big my, like, leg area and how wide my seat should be in the bus. And the and just the fact that this bus rides in my city, this is, basically a confirmation to me that this bus is going to feel exactly like every other bus because they're all following the same laws and the same standards.
Brian:Is this not something that you experienced in Russia?
Nikita:Nah. Not really. In Russia, like, we it's a little bit chaotic, a little bit more chaotic. We do have standards and norms in place. And if you consider something like food, it's basically the same thing as in Germany.
Nikita:It's pretty good, the laws. So you do not have, like, genetically modified food or it has to be clearly stated that it is all of the allergens story and stuff. But when it comes to buses, there's just like any machine a city can find will that will bring people from a to b, they will use. So Interesting. I've been riding buses that are, like, older than than me, like, magnitude of times.
Nikita:So I don't know, from the sixties. And they would still ride across the streets because they still work even though they're, I don't know, if they're even ecologically safe to drive at this point. So
Brian:I can't I can't remember if you mentioned it. What part of Germany are you in?
Nikita:I'm in I'm basically I'm near Hanover. This is, like, dead in the middle of Germany. So
Brian:I've spent, I've spent some time in Germany, but mostly around Munich because my parent company is, my company is based in Munich. And, when I was at the first time I spent some time there, speaking of everything having rules, I didn't know all of the rules. So one of the rules was stand on the right when you're on a, if you're gonna stand on an escalator, stand on the right and walk on the left. Everybody knows that. Right?
Brian:I didn't know that. Even though there's little signs there anyway, we there's sign there there's signs all over America, but we don't really read them. So, I was, I learned the I'm probably gonna get the pronunciation wrong, but in Schuldigen or something like that. And, I they I I got told that a lot, and I I asked a asked a coworker and said, what what are they meaning? And they, he said, how loud are they saying it?
Brian:And I said, well, quiet at first, but then sometimes really loud. And he said, okay. It's it's really get the hell out of the way. You're you're doing this wrong. I'm like, oh, okay.
Brian:So, I I don't know. Do you know what what what that means, that word? Is it
Nikita:is basically sorry or apologies.
Brian:Okay. But it's not really an apology. It's get out of the way.
Nikita:You you can use it as apology, but in this case, it's probably like, I'm sorry. Can I, like, come through? You're standing in the way. So it's like this fake politeness, which I guess also many people don't like about Germans, but they do have this I don't know if it's fake politeness. It's politeness even though they actually dislike you, but they will still be polite to you, but at the same time, very direct.
Nikita:So Well, I it's just So I didn't something about them.
Brian:Yeah. I didn't get any rudeness from it. Really, what I the what I really heard in the tone and the mannerism was, I don't actually wanna care about you, and you're making me care about you because you're standing in front of me. So
Nikita:Yeah. They're they're never rude, but they're always bringing the point to you.
Brian:And then, the other thing that was surprising to me because I don't know if it's it's all over America, but at least in the northwest, we're a very friendly kind of people, and we smile and wave at people. Even if I make contact eye contact with somebody, I'm gonna smile and nod or something. Even if I don't know him, just because, you know, we're both on the planet together. I got weird looks, like, around walking around Munich like that, especially in in the, city and stuff, and, commented with somebody about that. And they was, like, just he said they said again, it's just that people are doing their own business, and they don't know you.
Brian:And they they they're thinking that you know them, and that's disturbing to them that you're acknowledging them. So I don't know. Maybe it's a regional thing.
Nikita:It's kind of is, especially from Munich, I think, because, Munich has gotten so big. It's like one of the biggest cities in Europe, I would I would even say. And for many people that are there, Munich is not really a city where they live. It's like their workplace. So they go there to work and, they expect others to behave like, you know, like a person from a completely different part of your office building that you only meet in an elevator every morning, but that's it.
Nikita:So it's very little space for, I don't know, small talk and stuff. But in Russia, it's, like, even worse because when I got to Germany, I was really amazed at how when you go to when you go grocery shopping, like, the cashiers would greet you and then say, have a nice day at the end. So this is, like, not what we do in Russia, not even this. So we can, like, greet each other, but it's nothing as friendly as, Germany makes it seem.
Brian:Okay. How about, speaking of grocery shopping, that was another culture shock for me was, having to beg my own groceries in Germany. In that sometimes happens in the US, but for the most part, the store does it for you. Is that a how about in Russia or at least where you came from? Will they bag your groceries for you, or is that or is that all up to you?
Nikita:Definitely not. I I think even in Moscow, they don't do this. There was a one supermarket chain, which I think has gone bankrupt in the last year, but they used to do this at the at first. And not all people liked it because some people said, well, I don't know how the other person's going to pack my bag. I I know better how to pack my own bags, and I know better where to put the stuff in.
Brian:So do you have any, family, still in Russia?
Nikita:Yeah. Well, it's mostly only my grandparents. My mother has moved to Germany, last year. Okay. And yeah.
Nikita:So it's basically my grandparents and some friends of mine, but a lot of them have, migrated after 2022 to, like, other countries. So, basically, there is barely anyone in Russia that I know right at the moment.
Brian:Okay. And is that, elephant in the room? Is is is that largely because of the war?
Nikita:Yeah. It's largely because of the war. And also most of my, like, friends that I had in Russia, they're all programmers, software developers, IT personnel, which, means that they know English very well. They can earn a lot of money. They have enough finance.
Nikita:So those are people who are, like, the first to leave the country because the companies that we're working at were like, the half of them were working at the companies with abroad offices anyway. So they got just relocated, often for free or at the company's cost. And others just found for them a job in a different country, different region, and they just, left the country.
Brian:It's it's an interesting thing, and, I don't know if we can really reflect on it until it's all over and probably many years later. But the I've talked with a lot of people that have been affected by this and have moved out of out of Russia into different parts of Europe. But we had, like, a company I was talking to, a handful of people that they all live they all worked together, in Saint Petersburg, and now they're all over all over Europe. And so they're they're working remote, which is great, but they don't see each other as much anymore. So they all they all decided personal for personal reasons where they wanted to live.
Brian:But for work reasons, they all still work together. So it's interesting interesting dynamic, and, I'm not sure how that'll affect the workplace in the future. So, anyway
Nikita:I think COVID has, affected the workplaces, a tiny like, a little time before that, and I think it has been it's weird to say that, but COVID has been a great help in establishing this new remote or hybrid workplace culture. And I think this makes the stuff a little bit easier so that some companies have migrated to this hybrid slash remote work ethics and modes a little bit before that?
Brian:Yeah. And and some of it's in the a lot of it's great. A lot of it's a little bit of a bummer on my part, I think. Because I okay. So pre COVID, I went to your went to Germany probably couple times a year, 1 or 2 times a year for meetings and stuff like that, and for work.
Brian:Then, then COVID happened, and everybody learned how to remote work, which is great. But now we don't have to I don't need I don't have to go to Munich to meet with a bunch of people because everybody knows how to use, you know, the remote meeting software now, which is just good, but I'd still like to go to Europe once in a while. Anyway, I guess I could do it on my personal time, but then I have to play for the plane ticket. So any plans to come visit the US?
Nikita:It's quite difficult for me at the moment because I'm still a Russian citizen. So that means that a visa is required for me. It costs a hell of a lot of money, and I will have to go through a plethora of checks, like personal checks and everything else. And the US has been notorious for their visa application process where they will ask you, like, one of the questions on the visa application for the US is name every single social network or Internet account that you've had in your lifetime. So and I'm like, I don't know.
Brian:Let's see. Got my, Napster account back when I was 10. I don't remember.
Nikita:Yeah. Exactly. So this is like I I have no idea, like, how many accounts I have created and deleted over time when I was, young and reckless, I guess, exploring the early Internet.
Brian:How about traveling around Europe? Do you have any difficulty traveling to different countries in Europe?
Nikita:This not because, well, European Union is, luckily for me, a thing. So my visa or my work permit for Germany, extends over the whole European Union or actually Schengen area, which is European Union and a couple more countries which aren't in the EU. And so there is a lot for me to do because I haven't really visited anything. And I'm I think I'm going to start now when I have a job and a stable income and a stable residence so that I can visit some neighboring lands. Yeah.
Nikita:Netherlands, Belgium, something like this.
Brian:Yeah. That's that helps. Having money to travel is is kind of important. Right? So Yeah.
Brian:But I, like, went to school in you in Oregon, and one of the the coolest things in Oregon is a is a a lake in a in a old volcano called Crater Lake, and it's beautiful. But, I never visited it when I was here the first time. It wasn't until I I was working in Colorado, and I do took a vacation to Oregon and saw it for the first time. And, and now I've moved back to Oregon. Still have I haven't been there since I was since we've lived there.
Brian:Yes, dear. It's one of those, things I guess, remember to be a be a tourist in the town you're in also because, it's fun to explore. So, well, you you're, I guess, just starting your career, and that's pretty exciting. And I'm glad to have you on board and cool that you're a maintainer of this or helping maintain one project, and maybe there'll be more under your belt later. Any, any parts of the Python community or Python that you're excited about moving in the next couple years?
Brian:Or
Nikita:I'm really excited about just the community as a whole because I I really do not want to jinx it, but Python has kind of avoided the whole drama that is happening. Like, every second open source project is the something is happening with it. Like, something bad is happening. You have, like, Red Hat and Terraform and whatever pulling their projects back from open source. And then you have Rust with the whole trademark situation.
Nikita:And Python is just sitting there and people just enjoy the language and they enjoy the projects and just, love coding in it. And I think this is what I like a lot about it.
Brian:Well, the board and the PSF work really hard to make sure that is smooth for everybody still. So it it does seem like it's just there for us, and I I appreciate that. But it's, people are working hard to make sure that stays that way. I appreciated that as well. So, Definitely.
Brian:Any, and, any so are there any meetups in the area, your area that you could give talks at or anything?
Nikita:Yeah. There are a few of them, and I really want to actually, like, start pushing some Python community here in the area or in Germany at all because, this is a a plan of mine that's which I really want to pursue is to make, like, is is to make Python courses for the university students and maybe also, like, school pupils, or for everyone interested. Because I just realized when I finished university that I wasn't really taught Python that well or web development because, everything was so theory focused. Do I think this is one of the reasons why companies do not really want to touch Python is because universities don't wanna touch touch it in the 1st place. So you have a lot of workforce, potential workforce, and only a handful of them know how to be a web developer in the Python ecosystem because they either learn learn it themselves or they're like, like, a handful of universities that actually have it in their program, but most do not.
Nikita:At or at least this is what I, have seen. And this is what I really want to work towards changing. There there is a local Python meetup in the area, which where I haven't been to yet because the very first meetup since COVID was, like, last month, and I couldn't attend it. So let me, let's see if they will continue getting together with other people from the area.
Brian:Well, I'm I'm also curious if there's, how many how many remote meetups are around? Because I know the Boston meetup, for instance, is a remote, I don't know if they're local also, but they're at least open to there. You can check-in remotely, and I think it'd be kinda cool. Maybe I'll I'll I'll look into seeing if I can find a list. But, because, even remote meetups are kind of fun, to be able to to do.
Brian:I mean, it's not the same experiences as a bunch of peoples in the same in the same room, but it also is is a place to practice giving a talk and stuff like that. So, well, I'm I'm actually excited to see what you come up with, if you come up with any coursework for people to to learn the web or learn Python, because I I think you're right. I think it's, there's a mix of, of, like, super basic stuff to try to get kids to like it, which is not the right level. And there's there's stuff that's like, learn Python so that you can understand computer science concepts, which also isn't the right level to for for a job. So learning enough Python to do a job and do work to work in the web, I think there is a is a hole there.
Brian:There's some some information, but I think that we can have more. So, yeah, if you ever get those courses done, let let it let me know, and we'll I'll help promote them. So it'd be
Nikita:cool. Thank you.
Brian:So, thanks so much for your time. I guess one of the things I I we haven't really brought up your name. Can I'm not I I'm not gonna try it. I'd may okay. I will.
Brian:Let me try it. Nikita Karimov? Did I get that right?
Nikita:This is one of the ways how you can pronounce it. It's all in the so the pronunciation is actually mostly correct. It's all in the stress. So syllable stress. So it's Nikita Karamov, or Karamov.
Nikita:But I but I guess Karamov is actually way easier to say for the English ear, so this is what I've also been using for some time when I introduce myself to English speaking people.
Brian:Nikita Karamov. Karamov. Cool. So that's a cool name. So anyway, thanks for your time today.
Brian:And, yeah, keep in touch.
Nikita:Yeah. Thank you for your time. Bye.
